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	<title>Comments on: The Cost of &#8220;Chivalry&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/</link>
	<description>Exploring the East, Revisiting the West</description>
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		<title>By: whiskey</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/comment-page-1/#comment-2112</link>
		<dc:creator>whiskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=257#comment-2112</guid>
		<description>Ling is the sister of TV personality Lisa Ling, and IIRC Sabieri had connected relatives as well.

Connections and family ties allow family members power to get things done. A former FBI official, an unconnected White man, &quot;disappeared&quot; in Iran while visiting his wife&#039;s relatives. Nothing was said or done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ling is the sister of TV personality Lisa Ling, and IIRC Sabieri had connected relatives as well.</p>
<p>Connections and family ties allow family members power to get things done. A former FBI official, an unconnected White man, &#8220;disappeared&#8221; in Iran while visiting his wife&#8217;s relatives. Nothing was said or done.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/comment-page-1/#comment-2097</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=257#comment-2097</guid>
		<description>Great analysis, Welmer!  I had not considered events from that angle, but you are spot on.   Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great analysis, Welmer!  I had not considered events from that angle, but you are spot on.   Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Lukobe</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/comment-page-1/#comment-2073</link>
		<dc:creator>Lukobe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=257#comment-2073</guid>
		<description>Artificial wombs? &lt;i&gt;Brave New World&lt;/i&gt;, anyone?

&lt;i&gt;Bottle of mine, it&#039;s you I&#039;ve always wanted! / Bottle of mine, why was I ever decanted?&lt;/i&gt;

Or, better yet, the axolotl tanks from &lt;i&gt;Dune&lt;/i&gt;.

Nah, I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a good idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Artificial wombs? <i>Brave New World</i>, anyone?</p>
<p><i>Bottle of mine, it&#8217;s you I&#8217;ve always wanted! / Bottle of mine, why was I ever decanted?</i></p>
<p>Or, better yet, the axolotl tanks from <i>Dune</i>.</p>
<p>Nah, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a good idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Ovid</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/comment-page-1/#comment-2072</link>
		<dc:creator>Ovid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=257#comment-2072</guid>
		<description>Hey Nova,thanks for that pdf.I copied it to my hard drive a couple of years ago and then lost it when I reinstalled my OS.I&#039;ve been looking for it for two years now.Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Nova,thanks for that pdf.I copied it to my hard drive a couple of years ago and then lost it when I reinstalled my OS.I&#8217;ve been looking for it for two years now.Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: sestamibi</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/comment-page-1/#comment-2065</link>
		<dc:creator>sestamibi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=257#comment-2065</guid>
		<description>Check this out.  I&#039;ve been referring back to it ever since it came out three years ago.

http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2006/the_return_of_patriarchy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check this out.  I&#8217;ve been referring back to it ever since it came out three years ago.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2006/the_return_of_patriarchy" rel="nofollow">http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2006/the_return_of_patriarchy</a></p>
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		<title>By: novaseeker</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/comment-page-1/#comment-2064</link>
		<dc:creator>novaseeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=257#comment-2064</guid>
		<description>Sparta and Babylon are the two historical examples that are best known.  Some also raise late Rome as another example.

Sparta is perhaps the best documented example.  There is a research paper by two economists here: http://www2.montana.edu/ahanssen/Papers/sw144.pdf describing what happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sparta and Babylon are the two historical examples that are best known.  Some also raise late Rome as another example.</p>
<p>Sparta is perhaps the best documented example.  There is a research paper by two economists here: <a href="http://www2.montana.edu/ahanssen/Papers/sw144.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www2.montana.edu/ahanssen/Papers/sw144.pdf</a> describing what happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebel</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/comment-page-1/#comment-2063</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=257#comment-2063</guid>
		<description>The West has become a matriarchy.
China is a patriarchy.

Let&#039;s welcome China as the next world power and let&#039;s allow the West to die out.
It&#039;s in our own best interest as men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The West has become a matriarchy.<br />
China is a patriarchy.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s welcome China as the next world power and let&#8217;s allow the West to die out.<br />
It&#8217;s in our own best interest as men.</p>
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		<title>By: A Reader</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/comment-page-1/#comment-2061</link>
		<dc:creator>A Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=257#comment-2061</guid>
		<description>&quot;We know what has happened in other cases where women were empowered: the birth rate crashed, and patriarchal societies mopped up the remains. The same will happen to us.&quot;

novaseeker:

Any examples? I&#039;d be interested in reading those histories.

This post gives some compelling evidence that chivalry is merely a Western cultural problem.  It is not therefore an insurmountable issue, as you depressingly suggest on your blog,  because cultures can change. We need to work to make that happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We know what has happened in other cases where women were empowered: the birth rate crashed, and patriarchal societies mopped up the remains. The same will happen to us.&#8221;</p>
<p>novaseeker:</p>
<p>Any examples? I&#8217;d be interested in reading those histories.</p>
<p>This post gives some compelling evidence that chivalry is merely a Western cultural problem.  It is not therefore an insurmountable issue, as you depressingly suggest on your blog,  because cultures can change. We need to work to make that happen.</p>
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		<title>By: novaseeker</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/comment-page-1/#comment-2059</link>
		<dc:creator>novaseeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=257#comment-2059</guid>
		<description>&quot;If the west doesn’t relearn how to make babies…………its all going to be eclipsed. Thats why I think artificial wombs (that will induce more women to have children painlessly—-no messy pregnancies, no getting fat, no morning sickness, no missed work) will re-invigorate our birthrate. Women still like kids, they just dont want to fuck with the hassle. Europe and Russia especially (and South Korea OMG!) cannot go on with each generation barely over half the size of the preceeding generation, while importing low IQ’ed replacement humans from second and third world cultures. This is untenable long term. The West has to address this at some point, the boomers will start dying off in just a few more years.&quot;

Miles --

I actually don&#039;t think the artificial wombs will make a bid difference.  I think the reason why women have fewer kids is not avoiding pregnancy itself, but the cost of each kid and the impact of the kid on her work life and career -- well beyond the time of pregnancy.

I don&#039;t really see any way that the birth rate goes up again in the West unless the state takes over child raising, as some of the more Marxist second wave feminists like de Beauvoir suggested would need to take place in order for women to gain full equality.  And I don&#039;t think that&#039;s particularly likely in the next 20-30 years, which is the critical crunch period.

We know what has happened in other cases where women were empowered:  the birth rate crashed, and patriarchal societies mopped up the remains.  The same will happen to us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If the west doesn’t relearn how to make babies…………its all going to be eclipsed. Thats why I think artificial wombs (that will induce more women to have children painlessly—-no messy pregnancies, no getting fat, no morning sickness, no missed work) will re-invigorate our birthrate. Women still like kids, they just dont want to fuck with the hassle. Europe and Russia especially (and South Korea OMG!) cannot go on with each generation barely over half the size of the preceeding generation, while importing low IQ’ed replacement humans from second and third world cultures. This is untenable long term. The West has to address this at some point, the boomers will start dying off in just a few more years.&#8221;</p>
<p>Miles &#8211;</p>
<p>I actually don&#8217;t think the artificial wombs will make a bid difference.  I think the reason why women have fewer kids is not avoiding pregnancy itself, but the cost of each kid and the impact of the kid on her work life and career &#8212; well beyond the time of pregnancy.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really see any way that the birth rate goes up again in the West unless the state takes over child raising, as some of the more Marxist second wave feminists like de Beauvoir suggested would need to take place in order for women to gain full equality.  And I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s particularly likely in the next 20-30 years, which is the critical crunch period.</p>
<p>We know what has happened in other cases where women were empowered:  the birth rate crashed, and patriarchal societies mopped up the remains.  The same will happen to us.</p>
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		<title>By: miles</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/06/09/the-cost-of-chivalry/comment-page-1/#comment-2054</link>
		<dc:creator>miles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=257#comment-2054</guid>
		<description>Roxana Saberi is a very Asiatic-looking Persian. Those ancients sure got around. 


If we did not have the nuke arsenal, the submarines, the navy, the air force, and the satellites bequeathed to us by white beta males, we wouldn&#039;t last two weeks in this world. Our current leadership (&quot;community activists&quot;-ha!) would be chewed up and spit out by these other negotiators and players. 

Our current leaders are like newbie-racecar drivers given a NASCAR-quality stock-car  to race against better drivers in pedestrian Chevys, Toyotas, and Fords. We&#039;d finish in the back half of the pack if it weren&#039;t for the stock-car under current governance. Our country is twisted against itself with so many diversity-laws, equal-this-and-that-laws that many positions near important levers of power are given to time-servers and the lesser talented. A nation is only ultimately going to be as great as its populace. Looking at demographics, how much longer can we remain great unless we make sure no one else is able to build a maxim gun (nuke arsenals and missile defense systems) of their own. 

My prediction? China will use its debt over us and North Korean nukes as an excuse to vastly expand their nuclear capabilities and navy in the name of defense..........................and will emerge as our military equal in about three decades, and will cease taking any shit from us. The only lever we have over them is food production, but their population will have diminished greatly by that time (whaddya&#039; think---down to about a manageable 750 million by then?). If it wasn&#039;t for our massive cold-war military build up, it would have happened already, but we -will- be eclipsed. 


If the west doesn&#039;t relearn how to make babies............its all going to be eclipsed. Thats why I think artificial wombs (that will induce more women to have children painlessly----no messy pregnancies, no getting fat, no morning sickness, no missed work) will re-invigorate our birthrate. Women still like kids, they just dont want to fuck with the hassle. Europe and Russia especially (and South Korea OMG!) cannot go on with each generation barely over half the size of the preceeding generation, while importing low IQ&#039;ed replacement humans from second and third world cultures. This is untenable long term. The West has to address this at some point, the boomers will start dying off in just a few more years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roxana Saberi is a very Asiatic-looking Persian. Those ancients sure got around. </p>
<p>If we did not have the nuke arsenal, the submarines, the navy, the air force, and the satellites bequeathed to us by white beta males, we wouldn&#8217;t last two weeks in this world. Our current leadership (&#8220;community activists&#8221;-ha!) would be chewed up and spit out by these other negotiators and players. </p>
<p>Our current leaders are like newbie-racecar drivers given a NASCAR-quality stock-car  to race against better drivers in pedestrian Chevys, Toyotas, and Fords. We&#8217;d finish in the back half of the pack if it weren&#8217;t for the stock-car under current governance. Our country is twisted against itself with so many diversity-laws, equal-this-and-that-laws that many positions near important levers of power are given to time-servers and the lesser talented. A nation is only ultimately going to be as great as its populace. Looking at demographics, how much longer can we remain great unless we make sure no one else is able to build a maxim gun (nuke arsenals and missile defense systems) of their own. </p>
<p>My prediction? China will use its debt over us and North Korean nukes as an excuse to vastly expand their nuclear capabilities and navy in the name of defense&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..and will emerge as our military equal in about three decades, and will cease taking any shit from us. The only lever we have over them is food production, but their population will have diminished greatly by that time (whaddya&#8217; think&#8212;down to about a manageable 750 million by then?). If it wasn&#8217;t for our massive cold-war military build up, it would have happened already, but we -will- be eclipsed. </p>
<p>If the west doesn&#8217;t relearn how to make babies&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;its all going to be eclipsed. Thats why I think artificial wombs (that will induce more women to have children painlessly&#8212;-no messy pregnancies, no getting fat, no morning sickness, no missed work) will re-invigorate our birthrate. Women still like kids, they just dont want to fuck with the hassle. Europe and Russia especially (and South Korea OMG!) cannot go on with each generation barely over half the size of the preceeding generation, while importing low IQ&#8217;ed replacement humans from second and third world cultures. This is untenable long term. The West has to address this at some point, the boomers will start dying off in just a few more years.</p>
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