Comments on: The Role of Women in IT: Leaders of Men http://www.welmer.org/2009/07/31/the-role-of-women-in-it-leaders-of-men/ Exploring the East, Revisiting the West Tue, 18 Jan 2011 22:44:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Lukobe http://www.welmer.org/2009/07/31/the-role-of-women-in-it-leaders-of-men/comment-page-1/#comment-3800 Lukobe Wed, 05 Aug 2009 04:50:09 +0000 http://www.welmer.org/?p=415#comment-3800 I was just sent some interesting links on the subject of woman-on-woman workplace bullying by a former (female) coworker: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/business/10women.html?_r=1 http://www.workplacebullying.org/2009/05/20/wow-bullying/ I was just sent some interesting links on the subject of woman-on-woman workplace bullying by a former (female) coworker:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/business/10women.html?_r=1

http://www.workplacebullying.org/2009/05/20/wow-bullying/

]]> By: Zencommand http://www.welmer.org/2009/07/31/the-role-of-women-in-it-leaders-of-men/comment-page-1/#comment-3779 Zencommand Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:50:59 +0000 http://www.welmer.org/?p=415#comment-3779 This is why it's best to start your own business. I simply cannot deal with having a woman for a boss. Period. When a woman enters your work environment it's like someone through a big 'suck switch' that kills off all the comraderie, productivity, and morale. B.S. 'social' skills are not what gets things done. Hard work does. This is why it’s best to start your own business.
I simply cannot deal with having a woman for a boss. Period.
When a woman enters your work environment it’s like someone through a big ‘suck switch’ that kills off all the comraderie, productivity, and morale.
B.S. ‘social’ skills are not what gets things done.
Hard work does.

]]> By: Lukobe http://www.welmer.org/2009/07/31/the-role-of-women-in-it-leaders-of-men/comment-page-1/#comment-3745 Lukobe Sun, 02 Aug 2009 07:34:08 +0000 http://www.welmer.org/?p=415#comment-3745 It isn't so much that HR hires people, it's that they screen applicants and do the dirty work of firing when it's necessarily, no? It isn’t so much that HR hires people, it’s that they screen applicants and do the dirty work of firing when it’s necessarily, no?

]]> By: miles http://www.welmer.org/2009/07/31/the-role-of-women-in-it-leaders-of-men/comment-page-1/#comment-3742 miles Sun, 02 Aug 2009 04:13:56 +0000 http://www.welmer.org/?p=415#comment-3742 Whats so comic is that in many fields now, your boss might not be able to do ----anything----the employees do. The boss might simply have an office management or business management degree, but know nada, zilch, zero, and nothing about how to do what the employees are doing. Hence they dont' understand whats what, or whats causing delays, setbacks, inconsistency or any other problem. They just know how to threaten and whip-crack. As Welmer pointed out, often times these jobs are simply given to females to kill some AA birds with one stone, because the UPPER-upper management wants the best team possible in actual production, and figures that a boss is just there to keep some semblance of propriety so the sailors dont become full-bore pirates. Thats a bad strategy though. Bad management hurts in beaucoup little ways, not the least of which is old fashioned morale. Parting shot: women in H.R. end up hiring way to many other women, even when they are blatantly less qualified than other male applicants. Contrary to social beliefs, women tend to be much less fair or morale than men. Whats so comic is that in many fields now, your boss might not be able to do —-anything—-the employees do. The boss might simply have an office management or business management degree, but know nada, zilch, zero, and nothing about how to do what the employees are doing. Hence they dont’ understand whats what, or whats causing delays, setbacks, inconsistency or any other problem. They just know how to threaten and whip-crack.

As Welmer pointed out, often times these jobs are simply given to females to kill some AA birds with one stone, because the UPPER-upper management wants the best team possible in actual production, and figures that a boss is just there to keep some semblance of propriety so the sailors dont become full-bore pirates. Thats a bad strategy though. Bad management hurts in beaucoup little ways, not the least of which is old fashioned morale.

Parting shot: women in H.R. end up hiring way to many other women, even when they are blatantly less qualified than other male applicants. Contrary to social beliefs, women tend to be much less fair or morale than men.

]]> By: Lukobe http://www.welmer.org/2009/07/31/the-role-of-women-in-it-leaders-of-men/comment-page-1/#comment-3737 Lukobe Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:26:43 +0000 http://www.welmer.org/?p=415#comment-3737 That's kind of what I meant. At least the <i>Times</i> marked this comment by "Michael" as an "Editor's Selection": "I've worked under both male and female bosses. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. It is bigoted and sexist to claim that either is better than the other. Shamefully, we only condemn people when they claim male superiority, not when they claim female superiority." That’s kind of what I meant.

At least the Times marked this comment by “Michael” as an “Editor’s Selection”:

“I’ve worked under both male and female bosses. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. It is bigoted and sexist to claim that either is better than the other. Shamefully, we only condemn people when they claim male superiority, not when they claim female superiority.”

]]> By: novaseeker http://www.welmer.org/2009/07/31/the-role-of-women-in-it-leaders-of-men/comment-page-1/#comment-3729 novaseeker Sat, 01 Aug 2009 10:09:09 +0000 http://www.welmer.org/?p=415#comment-3729 Fascinating in that the NYT would never have printed an interview where a male manager said that men were, hands down, better managers. We've plowed right past "equality" and directly into matriarchal sexism. Fascinating in that the NYT would never have printed an interview where a male manager said that men were, hands down, better managers.

We’ve plowed right past “equality” and directly into matriarchal sexism.

]]> By: Lukobe http://www.welmer.org/2009/07/31/the-role-of-women-in-it-leaders-of-men/comment-page-1/#comment-3724 Lukobe Sat, 01 Aug 2009 00:18:20 +0000 http://www.welmer.org/?p=415#comment-3724 Fascinating interview: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/business/26corner.html Fascinating interview: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/business/26corner.html

]]> By: novaseeker http://www.welmer.org/2009/07/31/the-role-of-women-in-it-leaders-of-men/comment-page-1/#comment-3721 novaseeker Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:00:33 +0000 http://www.welmer.org/?p=415#comment-3721 I think that the stereotype about women being better at verbal skills is just that: a stereotype. If you look at writers, for example, you'll find plenty of them at all levels -- journalism, fiction, non-fiction, technical writing and so on. Yes, women are *closer* to men in verbal/writing ability than they are naturally in maths. But in no way are they dominant there. The areas where women are dominant are the caring/nurturing areas like nursing, teaching, social work, certain medical fields (pediatrics, gynecology, geriatrics, etc.) and so on. It's simply the latest canard that women are better managers and have better people skills and so on. That interview with Carol Smith indicated that she has terrible people skills, because she couldn't even understand why men often begin meetings with a few jokes and so on -- indicating a pretty low emotional intelligence, I think. I think that the stereotype about women being better at verbal skills is just that: a stereotype.

If you look at writers, for example, you’ll find plenty of them at all levels — journalism, fiction, non-fiction, technical writing and so on. Yes, women are *closer* to men in verbal/writing ability than they are naturally in maths. But in no way are they dominant there.

The areas where women are dominant are the caring/nurturing areas like nursing, teaching, social work, certain medical fields (pediatrics, gynecology, geriatrics, etc.) and so on.

It’s simply the latest canard that women are better managers and have better people skills and so on. That interview with Carol Smith indicated that she has terrible people skills, because she couldn’t even understand why men often begin meetings with a few jokes and so on — indicating a pretty low emotional intelligence, I think.

]]> By: Derek http://www.welmer.org/2009/07/31/the-role-of-women-in-it-leaders-of-men/comment-page-1/#comment-3716 Derek Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:23:16 +0000 http://www.welmer.org/?p=415#comment-3716 I have yet meet a really good female programmer. Most lack the innate curiosity to be constantly learning new things and generalizing old concepts to new one. The best female IT mangers I have met were very manly in how they handled things. The rest have been, uh you said the exact opposite yesterday; You really don't know what you are doing. They love policy but really care about getting things done efficiency. Even worse many are perfectionist... and with programming doing things perfectly means you never finish the project. You have to make trade offs to get things done. One of the things I have seen repeatedly: Most people who manage IT are overpaid. Most of them really don't understand the decisions they make and it often leads to major project blunders. As a societal rule we pay people more for being mangers on the assumption that they could do most of the jobs below them. This is way we pay them more than the average worker. This is no longer true. Most can't do any of the jobs they are charge of and in fact most don't even understand the jobs of the people they manage. You end up with a lot of people pushing to become mangers would benefit the company more if they stayed engineers or techs. The pay scale really should be adjusted to not pay mangers more than the average very talented employee. Our artificial pay scale for mangers is causing the rush of women into the market place. I have yet meet a really good female programmer. Most lack the innate curiosity to be constantly learning new things and generalizing old concepts to new one.

The best female IT mangers I have met were very manly in how they handled things. The rest have been, uh you said the exact opposite yesterday; You really don’t know what you are doing. They love policy but really care about getting things done efficiency. Even worse many are perfectionist… and with programming doing things perfectly means you never finish the project. You have to make trade offs to get things done.

One of the things I have seen repeatedly: Most people who manage IT are overpaid. Most of them really don’t understand the decisions they make and it often leads to major project blunders. As a societal rule we pay people more for being mangers on the assumption that they could do most of the jobs below them. This is way we pay them more than the average worker.

This is no longer true. Most can’t do any of the jobs they are charge of and in fact most don’t even understand the jobs of the people they manage. You end up with a lot of people pushing to become mangers would benefit the company more if they stayed engineers or techs. The pay scale really should be adjusted to not pay mangers more than the average very talented employee.

Our artificial pay scale for mangers is causing the rush of women into the market place.

]]> By: Lukobe http://www.welmer.org/2009/07/31/the-role-of-women-in-it-leaders-of-men/comment-page-1/#comment-3715 Lukobe Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:20:57 +0000 http://www.welmer.org/?p=415#comment-3715 Well, what about the "writing activities" bit? Well, what about the “writing activities” bit?

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