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	<title>Comments on: Women&#8217;s Rape Fantasies: The Deepest Taboo</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/</link>
	<description>Exploring the East, Revisiting the West</description>
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		<title>By: becky</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/comment-page-1/#comment-5190</link>
		<dc:creator>becky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=483#comment-5190</guid>
		<description>I guess you can look at any misdeed or inapropriate behavior towards the &quot;receiver&quot; as warranted. We have to be careful, it sounds as though this can be some sort of patriatical rationilization. There is a difference between fantasy and reality. What we invision as appealing doesn&#039;t always taste good in the real world and some of us KNOW this. Thus why it is a fantasy.. Or maybe this is simply a projection made unto women so that rape can just be a part on ones place- acceptance and submision. Context people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess you can look at any misdeed or inapropriate behavior towards the &#8220;receiver&#8221; as warranted. We have to be careful, it sounds as though this can be some sort of patriatical rationilization. There is a difference between fantasy and reality. What we invision as appealing doesn&#8217;t always taste good in the real world and some of us KNOW this. Thus why it is a fantasy.. Or maybe this is simply a projection made unto women so that rape can just be a part on ones place- acceptance and submision. Context people.</p>
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		<title>By: al</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/comment-page-1/#comment-5143</link>
		<dc:creator>al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=483#comment-5143</guid>
		<description>savvy,
capacity goes both ways; definitions of rape normally have an intent or reckless element.  If both partners are drunk, both are incapacitated, and yet your formulation could remove the requirement of mens rea and convict the man. 

consent, incapacity, and mens rea are not as simple and bright line as you&#039;re implying.  If it was these cases wouldn&#039;t give such fits to jurors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>savvy,<br />
capacity goes both ways; definitions of rape normally have an intent or reckless element.  If both partners are drunk, both are incapacitated, and yet your formulation could remove the requirement of mens rea and convict the man. </p>
<p>consent, incapacity, and mens rea are not as simple and bright line as you&#8217;re implying.  If it was these cases wouldn&#8217;t give such fits to jurors.</p>
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		<title>By: codebuster</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/comment-page-1/#comment-4975</link>
		<dc:creator>codebuster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=483#comment-4975</guid>
		<description>... er, meaning, of course, that you have to allow for women having depraved fantasizes that imagine rape with strangers. Would this diminish your view of women, or would it raise it? After all, if women have their own real issues of depravity, morals and courage to deal with, does this not raise their value as human beings, and not merely 2-dimensional cut-out barbie dolls for ther entertainment of men?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; er, meaning, of course, that you have to allow for women having depraved fantasizes that imagine rape with strangers. Would this diminish your view of women, or would it raise it? After all, if women have their own real issues of depravity, morals and courage to deal with, does this not raise their value as human beings, and not merely 2-dimensional cut-out barbie dolls for ther entertainment of men?</p>
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		<title>By: codebuster</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/comment-page-1/#comment-4974</link>
		<dc:creator>codebuster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=483#comment-4974</guid>
		<description>Perhaps I have been discussing and writing about these things for so long, that what seems obvious to me may not appear so to others. Two main points at issue here:

1) If a culture denies the deeper aspects of reality (e.g., female sexuality), then its women may develop personalities that are highly sterile and materialistic, and likely to be in denial about the more primal aspects of their nature – they will actually BELIEVE in their higher moral virtue. But it is a brittle, fragile morality that splinters into pieces in certain situations, and that denied primal beast can unexpectedly come to the fore, beyond a woman&#039;s control. But as for that minority of women who do not subscribe to such a morality and who do step over the line, they flip to the opposite extreme/ behaviour/ psychology, perhaps nymphomania. I’ve travelled to enough countries to observe patterns in how this duality evolves, in all its shades of grey. The bottom line, if you deny something primal, it leaps back at you tenfold.

2) Nothing in a culture materializes magically from a vacuum. If there is something culturally unsavoury about men, then as sure as the laws of mathematics and physics, there will be something equally as unsavoury about that culture’s women. It’s as reliable as a mathematical formula.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps I have been discussing and writing about these things for so long, that what seems obvious to me may not appear so to others. Two main points at issue here:</p>
<p>1) If a culture denies the deeper aspects of reality (e.g., female sexuality), then its women may develop personalities that are highly sterile and materialistic, and likely to be in denial about the more primal aspects of their nature – they will actually BELIEVE in their higher moral virtue. But it is a brittle, fragile morality that splinters into pieces in certain situations, and that denied primal beast can unexpectedly come to the fore, beyond a woman&#8217;s control. But as for that minority of women who do not subscribe to such a morality and who do step over the line, they flip to the opposite extreme/ behaviour/ psychology, perhaps nymphomania. I’ve travelled to enough countries to observe patterns in how this duality evolves, in all its shades of grey. The bottom line, if you deny something primal, it leaps back at you tenfold.</p>
<p>2) Nothing in a culture materializes magically from a vacuum. If there is something culturally unsavoury about men, then as sure as the laws of mathematics and physics, there will be something equally as unsavoury about that culture’s women. It’s as reliable as a mathematical formula.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd White</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/comment-page-1/#comment-4961</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=483#comment-4961</guid>
		<description>Codebuster: I have no idea what you&#039;re talking about.  Either you have no point or you didn&#039;t express your point clearly enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Codebuster: I have no idea what you&#8217;re talking about.  Either you have no point or you didn&#8217;t express your point clearly enough.</p>
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		<title>By: codebuster</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/comment-page-1/#comment-4937</link>
		<dc:creator>codebuster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=483#comment-4937</guid>
		<description>Todd, so many men say stuff along these lines, as you put it &quot;raping a woman you don&#039;t know or hardly know is a hideous crime of the first order.&quot; You know what that&#039;s going to do, don&#039;t you? It will make it even MORE forbidden, more of a secret, drive it more underground, making it more of a secret thrill unlike any other, and therefore more impossible to extract the truth. &quot;Addictive&quot; is a word that one woman confided to a couple of us at a dinner to allude to her secret longings, but she sensibly stopped short of explaining further. We didn&#039;t press her on the topic. 

A question... can we really accept that masculine perversions arise in a vacuum? Has it not occurred to anyone that the masculine perversions that are so routinely mocked have their feminine counterpoint?

It is my belief that some of the most valuable secrets of the universe might begin to unveil themselves once we crack this code.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd, so many men say stuff along these lines, as you put it &#8220;raping a woman you don&#8217;t know or hardly know is a hideous crime of the first order.&#8221; You know what that&#8217;s going to do, don&#8217;t you? It will make it even MORE forbidden, more of a secret, drive it more underground, making it more of a secret thrill unlike any other, and therefore more impossible to extract the truth. &#8220;Addictive&#8221; is a word that one woman confided to a couple of us at a dinner to allude to her secret longings, but she sensibly stopped short of explaining further. We didn&#8217;t press her on the topic. </p>
<p>A question&#8230; can we really accept that masculine perversions arise in a vacuum? Has it not occurred to anyone that the masculine perversions that are so routinely mocked have their feminine counterpoint?</p>
<p>It is my belief that some of the most valuable secrets of the universe might begin to unveil themselves once we crack this code.</p>
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		<title>By: Welmer</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/comment-page-1/#comment-4926</link>
		<dc:creator>Welmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=483#comment-4926</guid>
		<description>I hope you&#039;re correct, Todd, but I don&#039;t really know. Female sexuality is mysterious to me, and I can only speculate. I think this should be studied some more, but only insofar as it contributes to building a more functional society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope you&#8217;re correct, Todd, but I don&#8217;t really know. Female sexuality is mysterious to me, and I can only speculate. I think this should be studied some more, but only insofar as it contributes to building a more functional society.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd White</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/comment-page-1/#comment-4924</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 03:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=483#comment-4924</guid>
		<description>Welmer: 

Your article is a good start to a very interesting subject that deserves close attention.  

However, one thing that stood out to me:  You talk a lot about &quot;rape fantasies,&quot; but you don&#039;t explain WHO is doing the rape in those fantasies.  

I would wager that in the overwhelming majority of cases, the rapist is their husband, boyfriend, a guy they have a crush on, or some archetype of the &quot;perfect guy.&quot;  In other words, women fantasize about being raped - but only by a guy who they would normally - in real life - have sex with.  

This is an important distinction.  If we assume that women want to be raped by &quot;anyone, anytime,&quot; then women do seem depraved, and the casual attitude found by many men toward raping women (especially in foreign countries, as you mentioned) might be understandable.  But if the situation is the way *I see it,* raping a woman you don&#039;t know or hardly know is a hideous crime of the first order.

If anyone has any facts to either back me up, or disprove my theory, let me know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welmer: </p>
<p>Your article is a good start to a very interesting subject that deserves close attention.  </p>
<p>However, one thing that stood out to me:  You talk a lot about &#8220;rape fantasies,&#8221; but you don&#8217;t explain WHO is doing the rape in those fantasies.  </p>
<p>I would wager that in the overwhelming majority of cases, the rapist is their husband, boyfriend, a guy they have a crush on, or some archetype of the &#8220;perfect guy.&#8221;  In other words, women fantasize about being raped &#8211; but only by a guy who they would normally &#8211; in real life &#8211; have sex with.  </p>
<p>This is an important distinction.  If we assume that women want to be raped by &#8220;anyone, anytime,&#8221; then women do seem depraved, and the casual attitude found by many men toward raping women (especially in foreign countries, as you mentioned) might be understandable.  But if the situation is the way *I see it,* raping a woman you don&#8217;t know or hardly know is a hideous crime of the first order.</p>
<p>If anyone has any facts to either back me up, or disprove my theory, let me know.</p>
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		<title>By: Gideon Star</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/comment-page-1/#comment-4898</link>
		<dc:creator>Gideon Star</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=483#comment-4898</guid>
		<description>&quot;Ask your partner if they feel comfortable with what is going on–if they yes, and are in their right minds (not high or drunk), you have consent. If they say no even in jest, STOP.&quot;

WEIRD. What if BOTH the man and the woman are intoxicated and NEITHER &quot;ask&quot; the other - they just screw. Does that mean they &quot;raped&quot; each other? In almost ALL of these situations, EVEN IF the man is also intoxicated the man is expected to somehow shoulder more of the responsibility for , well, basically everything. Sorry, but we are ALL still responsible for our actions when intoxicated. Only if the woman is unconscious would what you say hold true. She still has the responsibility to clearly tell the man NO and attempt to extricate herself from the situation. DUH! Simply &quot;asking&quot; may not be good enough anyway. After all her inhibitions were down due to the alcohol. Maybe a written consent form?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ask your partner if they feel comfortable with what is going on–if they yes, and are in their right minds (not high or drunk), you have consent. If they say no even in jest, STOP.&#8221;</p>
<p>WEIRD. What if BOTH the man and the woman are intoxicated and NEITHER &#8220;ask&#8221; the other &#8211; they just screw. Does that mean they &#8220;raped&#8221; each other? In almost ALL of these situations, EVEN IF the man is also intoxicated the man is expected to somehow shoulder more of the responsibility for , well, basically everything. Sorry, but we are ALL still responsible for our actions when intoxicated. Only if the woman is unconscious would what you say hold true. She still has the responsibility to clearly tell the man NO and attempt to extricate herself from the situation. DUH! Simply &#8220;asking&#8221; may not be good enough anyway. After all her inhibitions were down due to the alcohol. Maybe a written consent form?</p>
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		<title>By: Savvy</title>
		<link>http://www.welmer.org/2009/09/02/womens-rape-fantasies-the-deepest-taboo/comment-page-1/#comment-4833</link>
		<dc:creator>Savvy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 10:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welmer.org/?p=483#comment-4833</guid>
		<description>al--&lt;i&gt;I think there is a HUGE danger is treating female morning-after-remorse as rape.&lt;/i&gt;

If you follow what defines consent, then you will not have that problem.  Drunkeness means that the woman is not able to give consent.  Ask your partner if they feel comfortable with what is going on--if they yes, and are in their right minds (not high or drunk), you have consent.  If they say no even in jest, STOP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>al&#8211;<i>I think there is a HUGE danger is treating female morning-after-remorse as rape.</i></p>
<p>If you follow what defines consent, then you will not have that problem.  Drunkeness means that the woman is not able to give consent.  Ask your partner if they feel comfortable with what is going on&#8211;if they yes, and are in their right minds (not high or drunk), you have consent.  If they say no even in jest, STOP.</p>
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